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Magic
I'm wondering, after reading several books about events involving magic and myth, especially set in landscapes like England and Scotland, are there any books, set here in the states which exhibit similar, uhm, flavors?
Is it possible to set a book any where in North America in which myth, magic, and imagination make the landscape haunted and full of power? Where you could easily slip through time without warning? Find your way to a place in which a battle happened and have similar events happen in the present?
I don't mean the type of slippage which happens in Urban Legends (though they are similar) nor the type you hear about in ghost stories (like the guy who happened to be out rock hunting and hearing a noise, discovered he was looking at a dinosaur. The next minute the dinosaur was gone and the world had returned to normal... though again, it is very similar to what I'm driving at) There is a quote from the New Adventure "Human Nature" by Paul Cornell which kind of explains what I mean:
"History is Time's way of preventing everything from
happening all at once"
In The Dark is Rising Sequence, for instance, Merriman Lyon, Will Stanton and others like them are planted loosely in time and are thus able to step from one time period to another without effort. It's a bit like the Doctor's ability to do the same in the TARDIS. In a lot of ways, the Doctor (and Time Lords in general) are very similar to the Old Ones in that they are planted loosely in time and not stuck to one age or another.
But I'm getting side tracked and I'm not looking for science or technology.
My original question still stands: is it possible to write a book set here in North America that involves the same kind of themes one finds in such books as The Dark is Rising, The Mists of Avalon, Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy, even Rowling's Harry Potter series?
I know some of the writers we have here in the states are capable of some really good fantasy, such as Eric S. Nylund, who wrote the excellent Dry Water set here in NM. What I'm looking for is the type of magic I find in the above named series, set here in the states. Any takers?
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>I'm wondering, after
>I'm wondering, after reading several books about events involving magic and myth, especially set in landscapes like England and Scotland, are there any books, set here in the States/Canada which exhibit similar, uhm, flavors?
My first degree was in Anthro, so I have some old, but good Indigenous American books involving magic and myth. You are welcome to browse my collection.
>Is it possible to set a book any where in America in which myth, magic, and imagination make the landscape haunted and full of power? Where you could easily slip through time without warning? Find your way to a place in which a battle happened and have similar events happen in the present?
We watched that episode of "Miracles: The Battle at Shadow Ridge," alternately called, "clean-up on aisle 3." If you have nothing to do you can drop by and watch the rest of the series.
But, that is TV, books are harder to find. If I learned anything when I lived on the Navajo Reservation for 9 yrs, I learned that the Navajos hate it when white people write about their religion and their myths. Many of them are not too thrilled with Tony Hillerman. When _The Fallen Man_ came out in 1996, the Navajo people were upset that Hillerman or anyone else might have climbed their sacred Tse' Bit'a'i (The Shiprock). The Navajo Resource Rangers went out and posted "do not climb" signs, just in case the book made it sound inviting to climb their sacred peak.
Are the Navajo possessive about their mythical and magical places? Very. Do the Navajo own exclusive literary rights to these places, these myths, and their religion? Yes, I think it comes under intellectual property. Is it fair? There is a lot of political and emotional baggage tied to any answer to that question.
>I don't mean the type of slippage which happens in Urban Legends (though they are similar) nor the type you hear about in ghost stories (like the guy who happened to be out rock hunting and hearing a noise, discovered he was looking at a dinosaur. The next minute the dinosaur was gone and the world had returned to normal... though again, it is very similar to what I'm driving at).
Splitting hairs.
Well, the earliest one I have read is ER Burroughs' John Carter series. He is a cavalry captain, escaping from an Apache war band. He enters an old Indian burial cave. The cave transports John Carter to Mars. Hijinx ensues on Mars for 9 books.
>In The Dark is Rising Sequence, for instance, Merriman Lyon (Merlin), Will Stanton and others like them are planted loosely in time and are thus able to step from one time period to another without effort. They are mythical and powerful folks whose power is drawn from beliefs which come from the dawn of time. The Doctor's ability to do the same in the TARDIS is bit like what these people/mythical/fictional people do. In a lot of ways, the Doctor (and Time Lords in general) are very similar to the Old Ones in that they are planted loosely in time and not stuck to one age or another and can affect the events around them.
>
Sounds like you need to read Roger Zelazny's Amber series. It fits your criteria. "They are mythical and powerful folks whose power is drawn from beliefs which come from the dawn of time." Very little time is spent in NY and South Africa. The characters tend to travel. There are 10 books and 6 short stories. The 10 books are published in an omnibus edition called, _The Great Book of Amber_. That should keep you busy. And, you will gain a new perspective on "slippage."
>But I'm getting side-tracked and I'm not looking for science or technology.
>
>My original question: is it possible to write a book set here in America that involves the same kind of themes one finds in such books as The Dark is Rising, The Mists of Avalon, Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy, even Rowling's Harry Potter series?
When I was a little squid, I remember reading Jane Langton's Hall Family Chronicles. They were popular in Boston in 1968. The first book is _The Diamond in the Window_. I lost it when I moved out here in 1974. However, a quick look at Amazon shows that the series was reprinted. I think there are 6-7 books. They live in an Addams Family type house (money pit). If you like 1960s New England mysteries, it may be what you want. They are children's books that involve solving a mystery.
>I know some of the writers we have here in the states are capable of really good fantasy, such as Eric S. Nylund, who wrote the excellent Dry Water set here in NM or Neal Gaiman, who wrote American Gods and The Anansi Boys. What I'm looking for is the type of magic I find in the above named series, set here in the States. Any takers?
_The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump_ by Harry Turtledove, is an interesting look at American Indian magical places and the power of their myths / gods.
_The Diamond in the Window_ (Hall Family Chronicles) by Jane Langton
_Jinx High_ (Diana Tregarde Mysteries) by Mercedes Lackey is about an ancient evil (is there any other kind?) living under Tulsa, OK. I was amused but not entranced by the book. _Burning Water_ is the first book. There are only 3 books in this series. Some fans are total idiots. They thought the events in these books were real and it caused a problem at conventions.
_Knight of Ghosts and Shadows_ by Mercedes Lackey and Ellen Guon is the first book in a bizarre series about Elves who come to SoCal and do the Renn Fair circuit. Elves rule.
_Guilty Pleasures_ (Vampire Hunter series) by Laurell Hamilton, may not be what you are looking for. It starts in St Louis and moves to different cites. The series may already be a comic book series by the Dabel Brothers, who did GRR Martin's "Hedge Knight."
And then, there is Harry Dresden in Chicago....
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Works with American magic
I have seen some works that involve Indigenous American Magic. Writers and titles escape me at the moment, but I know there have been several.
As a 2nd generation American, I would not feel comfortable writing such works.
Walter John Williams has done some genre-bending work blending magic with cyberpunk. Metropolitan was the one I have.
Aaron "Mr. What" Birenboim
Site administrator
> As a 2nd generation
> As a 2nd generation American, I would not feel comfortable writing such works.
Being 2nd gen is no impediment. William Saroyan was the son of Armenian immigrants. His books are considered classic Americana of the Great Depression:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Saroyan
In France, 2nd gen literature is the current rage. It chronicles the "Beur" experiences of 2nd gen Moroccans and Algerians. They often remind me of the 2nd gen lit by Japanese-Americans detailing their internment and WWII experiences.
If you want to write, go for it! The sky's the limit . . . or, maybe the word processor.
2nd gen non-native writers
are you saying that William Saroyan write Indigenous American themed literature? If so... I would find that disrespectful to indigenous american culture.
Sure... I would be comfortable writing in an american setting... after all, that's all I know. I would not write about indigenous american mythos unless I were immersed in that area, which I am not.
Aaron "Mr. What" Birenboim
Site administrator
I said William Saroyan wrote
I said William Saroyan wrote successful Americana. You also can write from your own 2nd gen insights and feelings. It's in vogue.
Write. Be all you can be.
Writing. It's an adventure.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
American Magic
It occurred to me that I might be asking the wrong question.
Is there a type of true American magic? Not Native/First American magic, per se(?), but magic which can be found in the American culture? Or are we too technologically bound for such a thing to occur?
As for the question Aaron asked about second gen stuff - how about being second gen on one side of the family (my dad) and several different gens on my mother's (all at different times- pre-Revolution all the way through the turn of the century?)
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A waist is a terrible thing to mind ...
Driver asleep. Do not disturb.
I thought you were looking
I thought you were looking for more books to read, so I had listed several series of books about American magical places, myths, as well as American Indian magic and myths. Yvonne also responded with book recommendations.
I think we Americans can make our own magic, outside of American Indian and Hawaiian magic. America is a country of immigrants. Most of what our culture has came from somewhere else. Our fav food is pizza and everyone does Chinese takeout. Likewise, our magic is imported, too. That which is not imported was created here, but is it "American"? It is if we give it a tire rotation and oil change; if we "Americanize" it. Then, we own it, just like we own pizza and Chinese takeout.
For example, Wicca is magical and mythic, but is it "American"? As far as magic goes, Wicca is a recent phenomenon -- a Victorian invention that went side by side with seances, spiritualism, garden fairies, scientific romance and Arthurian romance. Gerald Gardner alleged it was based on the pre-Christian matriarchal pagan religions. As a person with a BA in Anthro, I can assure you that no matriarchal society, past or present, has ever been found. There are matrilineal societies and matrilocal ones, the Pueblos and the Navajo, respectively. Back in the Victorian times, archaeologists made up theories about ancient cultures and the doctrine of mutterrecht [German: mother right]. It was invented by Swiss archaeologist Johann Jakob Bachofen in 1861. He had no proof, just Homer's mention of Amazons. So, Wicca is a British invention. And, matriarchy is European wishful thinking.
Americans like to borrow things. Scott Cunningham, Starhawk and many others added to the British Wiccan corpus, by collecting and by creating volumes of "how-to" Wicca. Technically, those books are "American" magical inventions, as American as pizza and Chinese takeout. Go ahead, borrow Wiccan material. It's as American as you and I.
Tarot cards are also an "American" magic. Numerous *ancient* tarot decks are offered by US Games. They are *not* ancient by any means. Tarot cards date from the 14th c. The 1960s explosion of different decks was an American phenomena. They were lovely and beautiful and they spoke to me. I still collect tarot cards. And, I make my own major arcana! Next time you are over, remind me to let you see them.
As for tarot books, Piers Anthony wrote a Tarot trilogy. Roger Zelazny wrote the Chronicle of Amber (10 books). Both series reveled in the magical power and beauty of the tarot. I even have a set of the very, very rare "Tarot de L'Ambre." Zelazny only licensed 1,000 copies -- and I have one. I'm going to be buried with it. Yes, you can take it with you when you go!
Wiccan and tarot are American magic, because we are not, as you queried, "too technologically bound for such a thing to occur." For that matter, we invented the Internet. Isn't that magic to low-tech societies? I think technology opened up a new direction for magic and myth. Never forget we are the Nation who invented "Spam," the luncheon loaf *and* the e-mail. Zelazny and Lindskold wrote _Donnerjack_ about the mythic "ghost in the machine." I'm sure there is a huge corpus of computer paranoia books.
Also, I think magic and myth is a matter of creative imagination. After all, English Professor Jan Harold Brunvand, Univ. of Utah, coined and spread the term and concept of "urban legend." Read more urban legends. They are as American as apple pie.
Writing is something anyone can do. But, not everyone should publish. If you want to write, then you should. Otherwise, you will be 94, on your deathbed, saying, "I wish I had written that book, when I was a whippersnapper."
Finish your filk song. That's a form of writing, too. Pat says she's hosting filking at her place on the 21st. If you write it, we will sing it. -- A
Still looking, searching ...
You are quite right, that's the way I started asking--are there any books which exhibit the type of magic which could lead to stepping through time or place with just a thought or finding the type of haunted landscapes of such as one finds in books set in England or Europe (or for that matter any where else but here in North America)? The list of books was quite good and I will go through and start reading them.
However, it occurred to me that I asked the wrong question to begin with, but it does tie in with the rest of the above question, so thank you for answering! I don't play with the tarot which I still don't understand, but that's Ok. So perhaps it would be better to say the question is evolving the more I think about it?
I found a book which partially explains (at least to me) what Americans lack in the way of folklore (which I knew already, but it made more sense once I read the opening paragraphs) called The Parade of Heroes: Legendary Figures in American Lore (Tristam Potter Coffin & Henning Cohen, 1978): "The United States is a large, culturally diverse, and kinetic nation. People do not stay put in America. They travel about, switch occupations, marry into ethnic groups different from their own, move upward and downward into new social positions ..." In other words, we just haven't had time to really build up myths and legends in the same way other places have. So while folklore tends to be stable and unchanging (at least the vast majority is) the US is anything but and hasn't been since the beginning. We don't have the same kind of folklore as other countries and people who bring theirs to the US find their folklore being eaten away and stolen by the one thing that can spread faster than the flu virus, esp. in this day and age of internet: mass media. Scary, no?
As for ULs, October is coming. How better to spend the month of Hallowe'en and the end of the year with a bunch of traditional ULs to read? My personal favorites include: The Vanishing Hitchhiker (really a ghost story), Bloody Mary (aka Mary Worth), The Hook, Axe Murderer in the Backseat, The Choking Doberman, Supernatural (season premier Oct. 4), Bugs in the Hair, and La Llorona. And I have started buying The Fortean Times just because it's interesting.
I will think about the filking. There are too many things going on this month, so I need to pick and chose. I haven't written any new filk songs lately, however.
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Driver asleep. Do not disturb.
I still think you should
I still think you should read _The Chronicles of Amber_ . It is a wonderful blend of myth and magic. Zelazny magically uses tarot trumps (major arcana) as a form of ansible, real-time communication across time and space -- this continuum, or any other. His trumps can also be used in combat. If your mind is more powerful than another person's, you can contact that person with their trump and turn their mind into guacamole. Ole'!
The trumps also function in *exactly* the other way that you are seeking. If the trump depicts a location, you can use the trump for "stepping through time or place with just a thought". For example, in the 6th book, young Merlin tries to escape from a demon dog. He grabs a set of major arcana and concentrates on the top card, escaping just as the demon dog is about to gut him. He's in an ancient desert, standing before the Sphinx. The Sphinx challenges him to correctly answer three questions, or be eaten. In that one scene, Zelazny links new magic to old, established myth.
You need to read _The Chronicles of Amber_ . The ABQ Public Library offers all 10 books in an omnibus edition called _The Great Book of Amber_ .
For October, you need to read Zelazny's _A Night in the Lonesome October_. Jack the Ripper is back and loving it. But, he must enlist the help of ghoulies and ghosties and Dracula to help save the Earth from an All Hallow's E'en apocalypse. It has 31 chapters, so you can read one chapter a day and finish on Halloween. The ABQ Public Library offers that book, too. --A